Comic Talk and General Discussion

The US Election
ozoneocean at 5:16PM, Nov. 8, 2016
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Congrats and condolences on your new president. :(
I'm sure Trumpet will give you at least some grace time before he fucks it all up.
 
Banes at 7:54PM, Nov. 8, 2016
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This is shocking.
ozoneocean at 11:40PM, Nov. 8, 2016
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I know.
For the last week I knew this was going to happen.

Weird that us Non-Americans feel it just as bad. Shows how much influence that country has… and how important their presidential position is. How could they screw it up so badly?
I don't think a lot of Americans realise that they're voting in someone who's influence affects so many people all over the world. A lot of them have a more self centred view unfortunately.
Too bad the rest of us can't vote.
 
kawaiidaigakusei at 12:42AM, Nov. 9, 2016
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Dear Dr. Banes and Professor Oz,

Please get your respective countries ready for the influx of American expatriots that will soon be moving abroad in the upcoming months.
P
bravo1102 at 1:51AM, Nov. 9, 2016
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Look at the Electoral map. Little slivers of blue flanking this massive red Sea. The people have spoken. Trump didn't just win, it was an unforseen sea of change. Nothing in the poles indicated this. It's the biggest electoral upset since Dewey versus Truman. It's called a mandate for change. A paradigm shift in government. Biggest change since the Reagan Revolution? As if any of you were old enough to read then, let alone vote. ;-)

This is what it means to be a patriot. To tolerate a massive shift in the ship of state and not abandon her but see her through to the next port of call in four years. Then we can dump Trump and elect someone more paletteable to people who don't live here and aren't governed by the son of a bitch.

I have to put up with the policy on a day by day basis you just get to read about it. I'm going to see if I can get a high paying job building the wall. If not I will be jumping ship in the Eastern Mediterranean when I go on my cruise next year. At least until the mid term elections. Get the Senate to the Democrats and things will be a little better.

Actually good news in New Jersey, we got rid of our most conservative fanatical congressman and hopefully Christie will go to Washington with Trump and give us a new governor.
last edited on Nov. 9, 2016 1:58AM
Genejoke at 3:06AM, Nov. 9, 2016
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It's going to be an interesting few years.
usedbooks at 4:41AM, Nov. 9, 2016
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I, for one, am looking forward to watching red congress butt heads with the Republican pres (that so many republicans don't like). Also curious to see who gets the “blame” after Congress spent years with a dem scapegoat…
bravo1102 at 4:52AM, Nov. 9, 2016
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usedbooks wrote:
I, for one, am looking forward to watching red congress butt heads with the Republican pres (that so many republicans don't like). Also curious to see who gets the “blame” after Congress spent years with a dem scapegoat…

Me too. It will be very entertaining. They're already talking Rudi Giuliani for attorney general setting the scene for huge changeover in how the Justice Department is run. And then an Independent Prosecutor for the Clintons. Even if no one goes to jail or anything else it'll be very entertaining. I remember coming home from grade school to flip between the Watergate trials and Sesame Street. I grew up on this stuff. :D
fallopiancrusader at 7:09AM, Nov. 9, 2016
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People living outside of the USA can take solace in the knowledge that they will escape the catastrophic domestic policies of a Trump Administration, but I fear that no one is safe: Trump's repeatedly stated willingness to use nuclear weapons as a foreign policy tool puts all of us at a very real level of danger.

I hope I can get some rest soon. I have been too terrified to get any sleep for the past 24 hours.
last edited on Nov. 9, 2016 8:09AM
usedbooks at 7:25AM, Nov. 9, 2016
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I'm also pretty sure Trump never held a real job. I think he was under the impression that this was a pageant. He's going to be in for a shocker when he discovers there's work involved.



I'm investing in some big buckets of popcorn.
fallopiancrusader at 8:11AM, Nov. 9, 2016
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What's really terrifying to me is imagining how Trump is going to re-decorate the white house! I imagine it will soon become the gold house… XD
usedbooks at 9:04AM, Nov. 9, 2016
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Giant Trump bust on the front lawn. Replace the American flag with a neon sign. Redesigned outfits for female staff to maximize grabability….
fallopiancrusader at 9:06AM, Nov. 9, 2016
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usedbooks wrote:
Giant Trump bust on the front lawn. Replace the American flag with a neon sign. Redesigned outfits for female staff to maximize grabability….

Maybe a stripper pole in the oval office?
KimLuster at 10:29AM, Nov. 9, 2016
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Can't (and won't) defend Trump, but… I think lots of people just don't get why a groundswell of people voted for him… I know a nearby small town very well - have family there. Probably half of the town's work-force was employed by local textile companies. Over the course of a few years, ALL of those jobs got moved into Latin America, costing thousands their livelihoods. Many scratched and clawed to find alternate employment, often at reduced wages and/or with long commutes if they found it at all. And now their reduced incomes are being cut into by rising health costs. Trump promised them hope and change(whether he can deliver is beside the point, the loss occurred on the establishment's watch, many figure what have they got to lose). Then, because they look to a very-flawed figure who promises them hope, they're called ignorant racists. Anyone skilled in psychology knows this sort of labeling just makes the ‘labeled’ close ranks and be even more determined. Now, multiply this scenario by thousand, in towns and counties across the U.S. (with some variance in details) and it is not hard to see why Trump won…
last edited on Nov. 9, 2016 10:30AM
fallopiancrusader at 12:23PM, Nov. 9, 2016
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@KimLuster: I agree. I believe that this election was entirely about the rage of the disenfranchised middle class on both the right and left. Both the Democrat and the Republican parties ignored that rage, and paid a steep price for it. I bet the Republican establishment thinks that they will be able to control Trump. Good luck with that!
Whirlwynd at 12:56PM, Nov. 9, 2016
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I spent most of election night holed up in my apartment painting and what I was working on ended up as kind of a vent art

Now I wish I was home because a lot of my old friends really need a hug today =(

fallopiancrusader at 1:20PM, Nov. 9, 2016
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@Whirlwynd: It's good to see that some art came out of this! My friends and I spent election night playing a rousing game of “pin the hair on the Trump”
last edited on Nov. 9, 2016 1:21PM
bravo1102 at 4:54PM, Nov. 9, 2016
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And you know if he does manage to do anything right he won't get credit for it.

Imagine if job creation and economic growth did double and the government revenue increased as it always does after a tax cut. The Philippines already backed off their most recent anti-American tirade. As humans we will filter out any good that comes of something we disagree with. Like how the ACA streamlined and reformed medical record keeping.

Remember in polls to find the worst president in American history, the current resident in the White House always wins.

After all I would come home from grade school to watch the Watergate hearings. Nuclear war? I spent six grade putting together a nearly 100 page report on the comparative strength of the Soviet and American arsenals. “May you live in interesting times” is not a curse. It's a truism. All times are interesting to those stuck in the middle of them.


El Cid at 8:42PM, Nov. 9, 2016
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Some of the reactions I've been seeing to this election are just bizarre. On a morning show today, they actually brought out a grief counselor to tell parents how they should explain what happened to their traumatized children. Like, seriously, I think the first thing those parents should do is apologize to their kids for being shitty parents. If you want to set a good example for your children, then instead of vilifying people you disagree with, you should at least make some attempt to understand where they're coming from – if for no other reason than because you just may end up having to work with them… like, maybe for the next four years at least.

The election's over. Nobody's fleeing to Canada. Trump isn't going to nuke anyone. They're not sending out black unmarked vans to haul off the brown people to concentration camps. Life will go on. If Trump screws it up, he'll be hamstrung by a Democratic Congress in two years and out the door in four. If he does well, then enjoy the prosperity. And in the meantime, it doesn't do anybody an ounce of good to flip out about it.
bravo1102 at 9:09PM, Nov. 9, 2016
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Right on target El Cid.

I remember 1980 when Reagan was elected and the young liberal me was terrified that I would wake up in Gilead from the Handmaid's Tale.
ozoneocean at 1:04AM, Nov. 10, 2016
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Trump didn't win the popular vote- less people voted for him than Clinton.
Interesting but irrelevant though unfortunately. :(

I would bet money that that whole FBI announcement about inspecting emails just a day or two before the election had a huge influence. Someone in the FBI should be in prison because of that.
If things had been reversed, with Trump being the favourite and then the FBI announcing something embarrassing for his campaign at a very strategic moment, which contributed to a predictable reversal of fortunes, I'd call for imprisonment in that situation as well.
Government agencies like that have to absolutely stay out of anything that can influence the result of an election.


@Bravo- unfortunately I don't just get to read about stupid things the US president does. It's an office with global influence. We're all still living with the legacy of Bush Jnr's war in Iraq and Afghanistan for example. And policies on oil drilling, alternative power, climate change, foreign policy, trade regulation, trade sanctions, and so on and so on affect the rest of us directly.
 
last edited on Nov. 10, 2016 1:05AM
bravo1102 at 1:41AM, Nov. 10, 2016
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Look at an electoral map. It makes it pretty clear why the US has retained the Electoral College rather than a straight popular vote. Little slivers of blue on the east and west coast and the whole rest of the country is red. It's a question of demographics and population density. Does the whole country want to have policy dictated to it by a highly concentrated but still not overwhelming urban population?

The same as the rural south didn't want to be under the thumb of a handful of northern cities in 1789, the whole Midwest, central Plains and south don't want New York, Chicago and Los Angeles dictating everything to them.

And yes you do just read about US politics rather than be affected by it. Like when was the last time your health insurance premium doubled because of some underfunded mandate? If you hadn't visited here the US would be nothing more than a nasty rumor on the evening news. Now when is Australia going to build and maintain a decent Navy to stop Chinese hegemony in the South China Sea? I say we pull the Pacific fleet back to Guam and Hawaii and let the rest of the Pacific rim become a Chinese swimming pool.

Just teasing. You're right as usual but I am stuck in a political system where the most I can do is cast a single vote and write letters to Congress. And trying desperately to keep everyone from worrying too much about a noisy populist and try to keep the faith in the political process. Sometimes things won't go your way and you have to live with it. The US needed new leadership and it certainly wasn't going to get any better with more of the same. Sometimes you got to shake things up a bit to get things going in a different direction. Maybe Trump enema might get the country healthy again.


And like an enema it might not be pleasant right now but everything will be better in the end.
last edited on Nov. 10, 2016 1:58AM
ozoneocean at 2:53AM, Nov. 10, 2016
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I doubt it man, enemas are one of the biggest pseudo quack health scams of the modern age and tend to do more harm than good.
So that's probably an apt comparison XD

Logically, it's better for a president to be elected by a popular vote, people already have senators to represent them directly. That's a very silly, outdated system- but I'm only talking theory here because that's not going to change in the US
 
KimLuster at 5:45AM, Nov. 10, 2016
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Yeah, logically the Electoral College should give way to way to a popular vote. I've stumped that argument many times… But a lot of people really underestimate how strong State's Rights feeling still is in the U.S. Less populated rural states are not about to give up any leverage they have against New York and California (who, they feel, have too much sway already). The entire process would require a constitutional amendment, be ratified by 2/3 of the states… It ain't gonna happen in a few lifetimes!
Banes at 5:59AM, Nov. 10, 2016
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KimLuster wrote:

Can't (and won't) defend Trump, but… I think lots of people just don't get why a groundswell of people voted for him… I know a nearby small town very well - have family there. Probably half of the town's work-force was employed by local textile companies. Over the course of a few years, ALL of those jobs got moved into Latin America, costing thousands their livelihoods. Many scratched and clawed to find alternate employment, often at reduced wages and/or with long commutes if they found it at all. And now their reduced incomes are being cut into by rising health costs. Trump promised them hope and change(whether he can deliver is beside the point, the loss occurred on the establishment's watch, many figure what have they got to lose). Then, because they look to a very-flawed figure who promises them hope, they're called ignorant racists. Anyone skilled in psychology knows this sort of labeling just makes the ‘labeled’ close ranks and be even more determined. Now, multiply this scenario by thousand, in towns and counties across the U.S. (with some variance in details) and it is not hard to see why Trump won…


Completely agree with this. The Trump victory is a shock but it didn't happen in a vacuum. People are backed against the wall, struggling more and more, and they were being presented with more of the same by the Establishment.


El Cid wrote:

The election's over. Nobody's fleeing to Canada. Trump isn't going to nuke anyone. They're not sending out black unmarked vans to haul off the brown people to concentration camps. Life will go on. If Trump screws it up, he'll be hamstrung by a Democratic Congress in two years and out the door in four. If he does well, then enjoy the prosperity. And in the meantime, it doesn't do anybody an ounce of good to flip out about it.

Agreed! Cool heads prevail on the Duck!

Having several friends who are immigrants or minorities, I would fear for them if we were in the U.S.

Trump's race baiting (is that the term?) as well as his disregard for environmental protection are scary.

But in two years the Congress flips, and he's out in four, like you said.

If Trumpkin really does put the brakes on these trade deals as he claims (I have my doubts about that), then that is a victory!

Wait a minute…

El Cid wrote:

Nobody's fleeing to Canada

Then what did I buy all these cheese platters for???

last edited on Nov. 10, 2016 6:06AM
kawaiidaigakusei at 6:56AM, Nov. 10, 2016
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I have done the Canada thing, and if living in -16*C for part of the eight month winter sounds more comfortable than living in the USA for the next four years, then more power to you. My only issue with being an expat is being officially labeled an immigrant.



I am reading articles from both perspectives and I am starting to see the whole picture. Having spent my life in large, urban cities like Chicago and Los Angeles gave me the impression that my network and friends were in the majority. However, it felt like the 2004 election all over again when I was living in a bubble of liberal-minded thinkers that was really on the outskirts of the rest of the country.

This election showed me that electorate was divided between the urban and rural areas. This was Upstate New York vs. Manhattan, Southern Illinois vs. Chicagoans, the whole Midwest vs. the East and West Coast. I hope that the city mouse and country mouse will get a chance to find common ground in the next four years.

Personally, the results of Tuesday's election sent me into a funk because I am a college educated, minority female that has spent years in the education sector working with students who are immigrants or children of immigrants. I called my dad this morning and said, “You have two daughters that are minority females in this country. What message are you trying to send us by voting the way you did? You might see this as a joke, but this is going to be my reality.” The rhetoric used during the campaign by the future POTUS was offensive and not diplomatic. I would like to see him right some of the wrongs while in office.
P
fallopiancrusader at 8:00AM, Nov. 10, 2016
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About that ancient Chinese curse which says “May you live in interesting times”: Well, yes, as a matter of fact, I do want to live in interesting times! Bring it on! My reaction while watching the election on Tuesday night was: I don't like what I am seeing, so it's time to either get to work and do something about it, or STFU. What can I, personally, do to make a difference in the governance of my country? Probably next to nothing, but I would rather be active than passive.
Banes at 8:01AM, Nov. 10, 2016
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I don't know if there are two sides to this argument. There are at least three.

The anti-Clinton faction is not necessarily pro-Trump.

No offense meant in any of this; I'm not even American but I've followed the election closely for over a year.

I was in my own echo chamber (probably a smaller one); I was sure Sanders would be the President.

Bernie Sanders was a powerful populist voice during the primary, who was buried and then laughed at by the corporate media, hidden by the Democrats with limited debates, and called everything from a misogynist to a communist while Hillary Clinton was propped up (Wikileaks reveals this).

People did not like or trust Hillary Clinton, no matter what the Administration, the corporate media and talk shows tried to pretend.

Honestly, she scared me more than Trump (partly because I never imagined Trump could win).

The police have become more militarized. Black people are put in jail in record numbers with long sentences for non violent crimes.

The Dakota Access oil Pipeline has seen violence against protestors by police and private security firms and an almost certain threat to tribal land and the drinking water of millions of people.

Obama and Clinton have ignored the whole thing, while he pushes more job-outsourcing trade deals and she collects millions and sells frakking around the world, while inciting a new cold war with Russia. Plus ever expanding wars overseas.

And Trump was not needed for any of it.

Isn't it better for evil to have an ugly face like Trump? That's an enemy that can be fought.

Granted, the right wing majority across the board is a surprise. But that won't last. People are outraged - this is not a bad thing!
KimLuster at 8:36AM, Nov. 10, 2016
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I truly didn't like either main candidate… I had reservations about where the U.S. is headed no matter which side won. I sometimes wonder if the divide is so big that it's inevitable the U.S. will split up in my kids lifetimes (don't think it will in mine…), but I also sometimes think a giant chunk of the country has just become social-media ‘wimpified’, and we're making mountains out of molehills. Yes, the office of U.S. President is the most powerful in the world, but there's enormous checks on that power…!! Obama couldn't get everything he wanted done, and it seems some of the things he did get done might get repealed… It will be same with Trump If he's half as bad as people fear, then congress will revolt in two years (with massive Democrat turnover at mid-term elections) and he'll be out of office in four!! If he turns out to be relatively decent, well… that's not a bad thing at all, is it. And it would've been the same with Bernie or Hillary… Not that people shouldn't be moved to action, but maybe the giant fear-mongering needs to die down a little…
El Cid at 8:50AM, Nov. 10, 2016
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@Banes: The heavy red takeover of the electoral map shouldn't necessarily be interpreted as a hard shift to the right. I think it's more a vote toward populism in general. Had Bernie Sanders been the democratic candidate, I'm positive he would have trounced Donald Trump handily. I think people went for Trump because he seems like someone who's at least in touch with what's going on in the country, whereas the Democratic bureaucracy's message was basically, “Trust us. We know what we're doing! It's really not that bad!”

If the Republican Party is going to be more of a working class populist party, that means they're moving their politics to the left. And with the Democrats moving to a more overt de facto socialist bent, it means the politics of the country as a whole are more left-leaning than they've been for a very long time, and that's a direct legacy of Trump's candidacy. The colors don't tell the whole story.

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